MMO: The "motherhood mystique"  you described in The Growth and Development of Mothers -- the notion that  children are perfectible and mothers alone can perfect them, that child-bearing  and child-rearing are a woman's ultimate fulfillment and her normal priority in  life, that the sex-based division of family work is predetermined by natural  selection -- has acquired a few new flourishes in the last thirty years, but is  still very much alive and well. Writers such as Susan Douglas and Meredith  Michaels (The Mommy Myth) and Judith Warner (Perfect Madness) have even argued  that today's model of ideal motherhood is more unrealistic and oppressive than  the version which compelled Betty Friedan to write The Feminine Mystique. Do  you feel we've made any progress in deflating the myth of the perfect mother in  the last three decades? 
                Angela Barron McBride: I think that  we have both made some progress and we are still affected by the "motherhood  mystique." It is difficult now to remember what the state of affairs was  in the beginning of the 1970s when I was writing The Growth and Development of  Mothers, but it was a time when the entire focus was on what the mother should  do for the sake of the child with no concern about her own development during  the adult years. It was only in the 1970s that we began to consider the  importance of fatherhood and began to take seriously adult development (both  shifts are underappreciated consequences of the women's movement). We have made  progress when we can elicit societal sympathy for the experience of motherhood  from the woman's perspective, and most men, no matter what their ideological  persuasion, now understand that if they're not involved with their children  when they're young then their children won't care about them when they are  older.  
                On the other hand, expectations for what the "good mother"  should do remain unrealistic. My mother once said to me, "I feel sorry for  you. In my day, we thought we were successful as mothers if we kept our  children fed, clothed, and out of jail. Your generation also expects to promote  your children's mental health." I now say to my older daughter who is a mother,  "I feel sorry for you. Not only do you expect to accomplish what my mother  and I did in that role (i.e., keeping children fed, clothed, out of jail, and  mentally healthy), but you believe that you can shaped the plasticity of your  children's brains." The point is that the knowledge explosion keeps upping  expectations for what we should be able to control, when the reality is that  perfection is not possible and children are shaped by so many things beyond our  control. We continue to hold mythic views of motherhood because our society  continues to hope that perfection is possible. In therapy, you strive to help  clients appreciate that they and their mothers/fathers can be "good enough"  rather than perfect. It's a lesson all of us need to learn along the way. 
                MMO: You wrote that coming to terms  with the emotional complexity and contradictions of motherhood opens up the  possibility of growth and self-actualization for mothers. Why is that true? 
                Angela Barron McBride: Building on  what I just said, I think that "growing up" requires one to come to  terms with the world's complexities and contradictions. Because becoming a  mother is such a profound experience, the role regularly brings to the fore a  host of emotions and unresolved ambiguities. In confronting this assortment of  thoughts and feelings, one moves away from the simplicities of "they lived  happily after" to the hard-won maturity of dealing with difficulties as  best you can and learning to love yourself and others even when they're far  from perfect. 
                MMO: You suggest the most important  question any mother can ask is herself is why she wanted to have babies in the  first place -- what raw desires, personal vanities, wishful thinking and secret  hopes of repairing old wounds make us hop on the motherhood train? And yet this  also seems like an extremely challenging path of introspection, since the real  reasons we yearn for motherhood are not always socially acceptable or  altruistic. Do you still feel confronting the question: "Why did I have  this baby?" is central to the growth and development of mothers, and if so,  why? 
                Angela Barron McBride: I don't  think you can analyze your own motivation while pregnant and a brand-new  mother. Usually you are clinging to your own romanticized views during this  time just to get through the experience (e.g., believing "it will be  different for me" even if you saw your own mother struggle in that role). Later  on, however, I do think every time you over-react to something or feel  disappointed can be an opportunity to explore your response, and move forward  in coming to terms with what real motherhood involves (as opposed to  fantasies). Such introspection isn't easy, though it is made easier when other  women are willing to talk and write about their own personal journeys, but  confronting one's raw desires and personal vanities does enable the person to  learn to handle disappointments better, meaning you're less likely to  over-react when your child is not the incarnation of perfection and your  partner isn't the perfect father you wished he would be. To put it another way,  you neither want others to expect you to be the perfect mother, nor do you want  to fall prey to thinking the converse, "I would be the perfect mother if  only I had perfect children and a perfect partner." The challenge of the  adult years is achieving what Erik Erikson referred to as "ego integrity"  while fully understanding how imperfect all individuals are.  
                MMO: In the age of "hyperparenting"  the issue of parental control seems particularly relevant -- we hope not only  to optimize our children's behavior and development, but their ultimate  destinies, through the practice of intensive mothering. What are some of the  illusions that lurk beneath this kind of do-or-die parenting, and how can it  shortchange the growth and development of mothers? 
                Angela Barron McBride: To the  extent that you as a mother think that "doing everything right" is  possible and that you can shape your child's destiny, you may be unprepared for  several realities: 
                
                  Children from the same families  (i.e., same genetic pool) can vary tremendously in temperament and behavioral  predispositions, and parents vary in their ability to handle different  personality types. 
                  Children are affected by what you  do, but they are also affected by many other things, e.g., lead in the  environment, the behavior of a host of relatives and friends, what is on  television. 
                  The notion that early good  mothering can inoculate the child to subsequent unsavory influences can  actually leave you ill prepared for the challenges of parenting school-age  children, because you begin to believe that the hard work of parenting is  pre-kindergarten. 
                 
                Too much focus on "doing right"  can make you oblivious to the real task of parenting, i.e., helping your child  develop resilience and weather adversity. 
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