MMO Letters: Fathers fight back, 2

Your article "War of the Wounds" unfairly portrayed fathers as terrible. This society will never reach equality. Mother usually get the custody of children, which can be unfair to the fathers, because they get cut out of seeing their kids. You assume that women are good and honest. There are good and bad men, there are good and bad women. Do you not realize that some women can be very misleading when they are desperate for custody? When a divorce happens, it is important that both parents have a fair agreement for sharing the children. Children deserve to see and meet both parents, why can't you understand that? If mothers were deprived of seeing their kids because full custody was given off to the fathers, then one would say, well if the mother had a good relationship with the father, she would be seeing the children. It is an unfair argument.

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Editors clarification: Indeed, mothers are not always innocent bystanders in high-conflict custody disputes. But they are not always the sole perpetrators, either. Most of the impartial research I've seen suggests both parents play an active role in sustaining antagonism in high conflict divorces. Unfortunately, mothers who have experienced domestic violence may be viewed as especially uncooperative, and a study cited in the article suggests that mothers who report domestic violence to the court are less likely to get favorable custody agreements than those who experience abuse but do not report it.

I have taken the time to read the articles and weigh the references cited. I find interesting allusions in all your writings. There is an implied inference that the vast majority of spousal abuse is physical and perpetrated by men and further that especially in high conflict divorce, emotional distress is further the result of men more so than women's bitterness.

I note the careful cherry picking of facts in the references cited and it is indeed [fortunate] for you that the majority of your readership probably never does delve in to the meat and potatoes of the research otherwise your credibility with your readership would be less than the current credibility you have in my personal opinion.

3 out of 4 women battered?

Take a look around you, at least one out of a hundred should be sporting a black eye. Find one? I thought not. How about a man who is suffering emotional anguish from the tongue lashing and belittling of a woman? What marks does he show?

Fathers Rights Movements all over the world are starting to show their anger. Better to help make it fair for all while you can instead of trying to spew poison.

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Editor's clarification: No specific figures on the incidence of domestic violence against women were cited in either article.

I had my son kidnapped by some femnazi and It'll be the last time I walk on the same side of the street as a woman...any woman. As far as I'm concerned their all liars, cheats and whores.

J.H.
Toronto

I found your article "What's wrong with the father's rights movement" to be interesting and thoughtful.

But I'm afraid you didn't really sell me on your main points.

I think you underestimate the motivation and ability of mothers to play the system purely as a means to hurt their former spouses. They may come across as "victims" and not angry and competitive. But in their own more passive way they can be just as nasty. And there is little doubt that the courts have a long history of viewing fathers as little more than a paycheck.

I think you make convoluted arguments against the presumption of joint custody that don't add up. The idea that being shuffled between two households is somehow more damaging to kids than losing a parent is ludicrous.

Some mothers may want to keep the natural fathers involved. But many either openly or secretly would be happy to write them out of the picture.

I am happily married and the at home dad of a darling three year old boy. But my own parents did divorce when I was an toddler, and my mom soon remarried and moved overseas with me and my sister. Needless to say neither of us ever knew our natural father. And while we were lucky to have two great parents, it is also true that we grew up with a big hole in our lives.

Stephen

Thank you so much for your coverage of the fathers rights movement. So many mainstream mothers organizations seem to ignore these people, as if it doesn't really relate to us "good" or "regular" moms.

It is amazing how easy it is to get sucked under. I am a good mother. I have no history of drug or alcohol abuse. I have no history of mental illness. I am gainfully employed. Yet I lost custody to a verbally and emotionally abusive man who is chronically unemployed and irresponsible (multiple near miss foreclosures, unpaid bills, judgements, etc.). He has a long history of obstructing visitation, yet on our last visit to court, the judge dismissed my petition for enforcement. On one level, I just cannot believe that this has happened to my life, not without something I can blame myself for. But I honestly cannot come up with anything. The incompetence and generally pro-father sentiments in our courts is just appalling.

Jan K.
New York

I am a Father of three and new to the world of divorce. I have done some research on mothers' and fathers' issues. I found Judith's article to be interesting and provided food for thought in the different areas. Both movements (mom's and dad's) have their truths, falsehoods, hypocrisy, vainness, desperation, etc.

I am not an activist, just a dad trying to be a better father and person. I look at the failure of my marriage as the result of both actions and inactions on the part of both husband and wife. Not because one or the other was trying to repress or control the other. I wish my Co-parent well and hope she finds the happiness she is looking for. I think by avoiding an adversarial relationship and focusing on the well-being and health of the children that we will all reach a place of normalcy and well-being.

I do think that some family courts are gender biased-but not all, but I would like to focus on something else. Divorce causes conflict and the current court system in many areas seems to foster that (perhaps because of lawyers more than anything). I was fortunate that in San Diego there is a program that is called Kids Turn and a companion program called Parents' Turn.

Although I did put pressure on my then spouse to participate (as well as the kids), I believe it was healthy and good for all of us. I also think that she now feels the same way. These programs are for parents and families going through the divorce process and tries to teach them about the effects of divorce and how to focus on the children (Kids' Turn) or focus on changing your own behavior/take responsibility (Parents' Turn). It also teaches how to reduce conflict, better communicate, etc. Since this program, both my Co-parent and I have focused on what was best for the kids despite how we may feel about the other or ourselves. This has reduced conflict.

Instead of concentrating on a particular gender's rights, I want to concentrate on children's rights and keep any kind of discrimination (or manipulation) out of the courts. Let's stop pitting the genders against each other. Domestic violence occurs in many forms and so does discrimination. t isn't a one mold fits all kind of thing. Encouraging families to work together for the sake of the kids is best and is possible -- when in the absence of abuse (domestic or substance) or neglect. Sometimes this takes more than a lawyer or a judges decision. In my case, it took personal commitment and some terrific people at Kids'/Parents' Turn.

John G.

This clip from your article represents a clearly uninformed attitude and uses an unsupported and vague statistical reference , which serves only to use the shock value of abusive behavior , to attack men , and draw attention away from a very real and serious, failure on behalf of mental health professionals engaged by the family court system to determine custody of the children who are being emotional and psychologically traumatized in high conflict divorce, you should be ashamed of your selves for printing this propagandist dribble.

"[Some fathers] may very well be getting a raw deal. If so, it is essential that divorce lawyers, psychotherapists, family service court officers, mediators, guardians ad litem and judges educate themselves about those circumstances and take steps to intervene when a man has been erroneously targeted as part of a strategy in a contentious custody complaint. However, in a dangerously high number of cases, many of these fathers have a documented history of abuse."

The facts are that most high conflict custody disputes are fueled by a custodial parent, usually the mother, who wont let the father see his children, because she is afflicted with multiple personality disorders. And as far as statistics go , accusations of abuse are the most commonly used tactic that feminist divorce guides urge their female clients to use in court. Your writer would do more to benefit children if she were to write about that, but of course, first of all the feminist philosophy would have to advocate women being held accountable for this most common form of child abuse, but considering that women are rarely held accountable for anything once allegations of abuse have been made against the father, why bother when after all it would be in the children's best interest and we know that really is not on your or the family courts agenda.

If you want to actually learn something take a look at the featured article from Family Mediation news, summer of 2004.

And please try and get your reporters to be more responsible and refrain from hyping the violence thing , I know it's real , and it is unacceptable , but it's not the only issue , many children are getting their lives screwed up by mommy.

Mark K.

Editor's clarification: Mark K mentions and article by psychiatrist Michael Friedman suggesting that in some cases, it only takes the bad faith effort of one partner to generate a high-conflict custody situation. Although he clearly states that either partner can be responsible for triggering conflict, he uses examples in which mothers are the primary culprits. Friedman's commentary was intended as a theoretical critique, and was not based on systematic research. The article may be viewed here.

Good god, you really do hate men, don't you?

You say feminism isn’t the problem, then explain the correlation between feminism and the degrading of the family.

Not "everything" in this world is a man's fault -- hard as that fact is to swallow.

Feminists have a lot to answer for, abusing statistics and only telling portions of the truth are as good as lying, but you seem to prefer to turn a blind eye and allow this abuse to continue than to stand back and acknowledge that Dads to hold an important place in children's lives.

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Why are you so afraid of fathers being more involved with their kids? Dads are more than a wallet. Men are more than a woman's designated shit magnet. Grow up and strive to become a real woman. You have a long way to go.

Tom E.

I find it very interesting that "women" demanded equal rights, equal pay and so on, but when it comes to family, children and assets, women want it all.

Just so you know the truth, it is not a woman's job to slave for a man and not a man's job to slave for a woman. When the woman's movement actually embraces equal rights, the rest of the country might work with you. As it is now, the only thing you have accomplished is that men who are "prime" for a partner are not even considering marriage and children. They have seen the destruction all of this has done and want no part of it. This only leaves the "non-prime" male available for procreation. Congratulations...you have succeeded against MOTHER NATURE.

Michael M.

You are too blinded by your own prejudice that you can't see.

They are a lot of good fathers out there who had the misfortune of marrying bad women who are abusive mothers, but our current system relies on stereotypes of June Cleaver as a model.

If people could just open their eyes and minds, let go of their misdirected hate, and see people for what they really are... humans with faults and attributes unrelated to gender.

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I, as a father, am responding to your article concerning the father's rights movement. I am a 36 year old US Navy veteran who works for the USPS as a Machine Mechanic. I do not have custody of my children but do have the basic visitation rights of non-custodial parents. I take issue with how you color the movement as a bunch of domestic abusers or ex-wife controllers. This movement for me is about gender equity in the courts and through all laws. I was not granted custody of my boys because I worked and that I worked nights at the time. Their mother had quit her part-time job prior to the divorce and has not returned to work since, over 4 1/2 years ago. I have always paid my child support and I have never even been accused of domestic violence but I still don't get any more custody of my children because of the court's bias towards women. All I want is the laws of the nation and states to require the courts to give father's equal custody rights and that they require equal support responsibility. No laws of this country should ever give one sex more rights over the other or require more of one sex then the other such is the case in VAWA and TANF. All laws need to be gender neutral as well as tax laws be geared towards those that pay taxes and provide the support of their children. Help those of us who do want equality.

Darrick
Augusta, Michigan

Editor's clarification: VAWA refers the federal Violence Against Women Act, which is up for reauthorization this year and generally opposed by fathers' rights groups as anti-male; TANF refers to Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, which requires mothers receiving welfare benefits to provide contact information for their children's fathers so states can collect child support payments.

editor@mothersmovement.org